Camp Creek Press

Me: How long have you been doing project work?

Dominic: Since I was three.

Me: How do you study a topic by doing a project?

Dominic: Instead of just reading a book, you actually do something with it. Like, when the preschoolers studied space, they didn't just read books about it. They built a rocket ship and helmets. When we were studying frogs, we made a giant frog and we made his joints move the way we learned how their joints move.

Me: So you build models? What other kinds of things do you do?

Dominic: All kinds of things. Also when we were studying frogs, we brought in frogs. We went to see frogs. We studied them.

Now I’m working on my geology project and I’ve been writing down everything I’ve learned and I’m making plans to make it into a book and hopefully sell it for lots of moola.

Me: So, some of the things you’ve mentioned include

- making models

- studying live specimens

- dramatic play

- reading books

- writing books

- taking field trips

Also, when you guys did that frog project, you had an expert come talk to you, right?

Dominic: A professor came from the university and he brought some frogs to show us. One got loose! It was hilarious.

Me: So, tell me about your geology project.

Dominic: Basically, I just get out my journal and a geology book and I read half a page and then write down in my journal what I learned that day. Also, usually most of the pages have pictures and I draw those in my journal, too.

Me: What made you interested in geology in the first place?

Dominic: We were on vacation and we were visiting the Badlands and at one of the tourist centers I got a book on geology and started reading it.

Me: What do you find interesting about geology?

Dominic: A lot of different stuff. It’s just interesting to find out how everything was made and the different processes — how volcanos are made, how rocks are made. What I was reading about yesterday was how a river will go around a convex bend and hit a block of rock and wash that rock away and then the river will slowly migrate sideways.

Me: When you’re done with your geology project, what do you think you might study next?

Dominic: I don't know. I’ll study whatever I think is interesting.

My BFF Emily, who used to teach K-3rd at the TPS, left a great comment on my post Observational drawing: Where do we go from here?. It was so great, I’m going to reproduce it here in its entirety so more people can see it.

I know this comment is after-the-fact for this conversation, but I am a "late reader" and so I'm only seeing this for the first time.

As soon as I read your post, Lori, I knew I *had* to write a comment because I still think about all the wonderful things that happened during our instrument project. Learning the instrument families --- no! Becoming *experts* on instrument families, learning how sounds travels, making the ears, the "Keyboard Controversy," all of it was amazing. It's all become a magical memory for me. One that keeps me motivated to keep trying projects in a public school setting even if it is hard and sometimes frustrating. One that reminds me all that children are capable of --- so much more than I sometimes give them credit for. One that encourages me to challenge kids. One that makes me mourn the loss of that class, and the simple fact that my own son will not ever get to experience that moment with those circumstances. (Although I hope to recreate it for him at home.)

Thank you for giving me another moment to relive that year!

I also wanted to share another story related to the "keyboard controversy." As estea pointed out, the piano is a string instrument, and, of course, we knew that as well, but the PROCESS they took to learn that fact was much more worthwhile for them since they had to discover it on their own. They learned so much more than how to classify a piano. They learned that everything written in books isn't necessarily true, as you mentioned. They learned how to debate. They learned how to make hypotheses and conclusions. (In the end, they decided that a piano was, indeed, a string instrument, BUT an electronic keyboard was a percussion instrument since it doesn't have strings.)

The story I was thinking of happened about that same time. A child in the class became very interested in the Loch Ness Monster. He asked me if it was real, and, of course, I answered, "I don't know. Why don't you try to find out?" So, he did! He checked out books on the subject, interviewed his classmates to see what they thought, and we probably looked online for information too. And then all of sudden, one day, his interest was gone. *Poof!* No more discussions, no questions, nothing. When I asked him about it, he replied, "Oh, I asked my dad what he thought, and he said it wasn't real. So now I know." And just like that, he lost so many valuable learning opportunities.

And now I've rambled for long enough. Thank you again, Lori, for writing about this!

Emily, thank you so much for taking the time to share this.

My kids most of the time see what I've drawn and right away start complaining that they can't draw and that they want me to draw it for them, or saying "I don't know how to draw it". — Heather

Never draw for your children. It sets up a dynamic where they are going to try to copy your example, and that's not what we're after. We want to observe and try to draw what we see, not mimic someone else's drawing.

Instead of drawing for your child, talk to them and support their efforts.

The child who says "I can't draw!" or "My drawing looks terrible!" is expressing a lack of confidence or maybe just looking for confirmation or denial. Sometimes they are overwhelmed by something that seems too difficult.

If they complain that they are making mistakes or their drawing isn't good, point out that we have to make mistakes when we are learning something new. If we aren't making mistakes, we aren't learning.

Focus their attention on what they are drawing. Talk together about at which point they might start drawing the object. Have them trace it with their finger before they start. Talk about all the things they notice about what they are drawing — the textures, the details.

Try breaking the exercise down into smaller tasks. "Can you draw this line?" Once they have drawn that line, "Can you add this detail?" It is always helpful to ask, "What do you think?" They will usually point out to me what they haven't yet drawn, or some detail they've so far ignored. They may point out something they don't like about their drawing. "It's too small." "It's the wrong shape." In that case, say, "I see what you are saying. Why don't you draw it again over here [on a blank piece of the paper or a new sheet]."

Let them see that they are learning. This is why I like to use a sketchbook. Flip back and look at their first drawings and ask them what they think. Can they see their own progress? Remind them that the two things that will make them better at drawing are observation and practice.

My son compares his drawing to his older brother's and becomes upset and says he doesn't want to draw anymore. What should I say? — Pam

If a child compares himself to an older friend or sibling or to you or another adult, point out that that person has simply had more practice than he has.

When my younger son made this same lament, his older brother said, "You are a much better artist than I was at your age — when you are my age, you will probably be better than me!"

If I was working with a child and they admired my work, I would say a genuine "Thank you!" and maybe "I've been working really hard on this." (Modeling desirable behavior.)

If the child went on to say, discouraged, "I'll never be that good", I would point out how much progress they've made and/or point out how much better I get when I practice. (Praising effort, not results.)

I have a question about using erasers--how would you handle objections?? My oldest is Mr. Perfectionist and I can already hear him griping at me for suggesting this. Any ideas?? — Jill

My older students especially can spend the entire class erasing and trying to perfect each line as they go. Stress that sketching is practicing and when you stop being happy with your drawing, instead of erasing you're just going to move to another part of the paper (or a new page) and keep drawing.

How about a little sports analogy? If your son was practicing batting, he would hit 100 balls in a row. He wouldn't stop every time he missed one and say, wait, pitch that one to me again — I need to redo that! You just keep practicing and after hundreds of balls, you're a much better hitter.

How do you encourage them to follow their own ideas instead of feeling like they should copy you? — Michelle

Copying isn't necessarily bad. In the clasroom, we loved to see kids copying each other, because they would get into a fantastic group dynamic, extending each other's work. For example, child #1 makes an aquarium by wrapping a piece of cardboard into a tube. Child #2 "copies" the first child and also makes an aquarium, but he finds a piece of acetate in the recyclables and makes a transparent tube. Child #1 goes to find his own piece of acetate and make a new, transparent aquarium. Child #3 is now on the scene and also wants to make an aquarium — but he adds beads to the bottom for rocks and tapes cut-out fish to the sides. You can see how this kind of dialog improves everyone's work.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that a child lacks confidence in her own ideas if she switches to making the same thing that you are making, or the same thing as the child next to her. In some ways this can be "restaurant syndrome" — I thought I wanted a salad until you ordered the club sandwich. I had an idea, but once I saw your idea, that looked great, too!

If your child has a lot of opportunities to make authentic art — preferably every day — they will eventually work on their own ideas. If you sit down to, say, play with wire sculpture with your children, you might hang back and wait to see what they are making and encourage their efforts.

Try having your child draw from her imagination while you are nearby but busy with some other activity — cooking dinner, for example. Have her tell you about her drawing while she makes it. "I'm drawing our house. This is me. This is you. This is Daddy. This is Grandma coming to visit" etc. When you are making art together or with a group of friends, try not to worry too much if she's "copying" someone else's idea. She will probably add her own ideas, like seasoning, and she is still getting great experience learning about the materials and what she can do with them.

Related stuff:

Drawing with your children

Drawing with your children, continued

Mellow

An interesting article in New York Magazine: How Not to Talk to Your Kids: The Inverse Power of Praise.

Offering praise has become a sort of panacea for the anxieties of modern parenting. Out of our children’s lives from breakfast to dinner, we turn it up a notch when we get home. In those few hours together, we want them to hear the things we can’t say during the day—We are in your corner, we are here for you, we believe in you.

Dweck’s research on overpraised kids strongly suggests that image maintenance becomes their primary concern — they are more competitive and more interested in tearing others down.

Their meta-analysis determined that praised students become risk-averse [my emphasis] and lack perceived autonomy. The scholars found consistent correlations between a liberal use of praise and students’ “shorter task persistence, more eye-checking with the teacher, and inflected speech such that answers have the intonation of questions.”

It's not a terribly new idea. Just have to hop on over to Alfie Kohn's website and reread Five Reasons to Stop Saying "Good Job!"

Are our reactions helping the child to feel a sense of control over her life -- or to constantly look to us for approval? Are they helping her to become more excited about what she’s doing in its own right – or turning it into something she just wants to get through in order to receive a pat on the head?

or check out Kohn's 1997 book Punished by Rewards (interview referencing the book here).

As we've been discussing both here and in e-mail and on some of your blogs, perfectionism tends to shut kids down — they stop being interested in doing things that they don't immediately excel at. Bronson's article, the same as Kohn's ten years ago, suggests that if we praise end products rather than effort, kids are less likely to dig in to a difficult task. What do you think?

Related stuff:

It's not (all) about the art

The perfectionist

I've been e-mailing with some friends and talking in the comments about our common struggles with our bright, perfectionist children.

Then I remembered that I wrote about this before.

So, I just wanted to say something about how it's not all about the art — it's also about the things we can learn as we do authentic art (as opposed to a craft with a defined goal).

Having ideas. Making plans. Making mistakes. Dealing with setbacks. Solving problems. Incorporating new information. Dealing with our issues, whether they be a lack of confidence or a tendency toward perfectionism. All of the so-called habits of mind.

See also:

The perfectionist

Perfectionism and praise

Along with being intractable, my older son is also a perfectionist.

I had hoped to avoid this. I was a perfectionist as a child (I claim to be partly cured), and I know what it cost me. I avoided any activities that I didn't immediately excel in. (Not that there were many.) (I kid.) I wanted him to be able to relax and enjoy life more.

Alas, genetics trump intentions, and he is a perfectionist to the core.

The boy uses a lot of erasers. He crumples a lot of paper. He shows me a drawing that I think is amazing in its detail and clarity, and then he crumples it up and throws it away five minutes later. I now try to grab things from him before they get destroyed, or I beg him to give them to me instead of tossing them. He says, "No! I don't want anyone to see that!"

It is difficult to compliment a perfectionist child. You say, "That is a great drawing. You really included a lot of detail." He responds, "It isn't that good. I didn't draw the feathers right. The eyes don't look right. I really don't like it..."

We do a few different things to try to mitigate this tendency. He's homeschooled, so he can't easily compare himself to others. (Before, he was in a multi-age class in a private school, in a similar situation.) I work with him to set reasonable goals for himself. He does a lot of art and other creative pursuits, where the enjoyment is in making and there's no particular end goal.

We talk about the process, and how fun it is to simply read books about something that interests us, visit places we've never seen before, talk to new people. We stress that mistakes are necessary for learning, and if you aren't making mistakes, you aren't learning. We share our own mistakes, and try to model accepting our failures gracefully.

At the beginning of a new project, we talk about what might go wrong that we'll have to deal with, or what difficulties we should expect, emphasizing that something will always go wrong. (Perfection is not possible!)

We acknowledge his perfectionism and call him on it, and we share our own experiences with it.

Finally, we make an effort to celebrate all of his achievements, so he won't gloss right over them and head immediately for the next difficult goal.

The thing that is really hard, and really amazing, is giving up on being perfect and beginning the work of becoming yourself. — Anna Quindlen

See also:

It's not (all) about the art

Perfectionism and praise

PTA: Preventing Perfectionism in Children