Teacher Effects
Monday, January 12, 2009 at 11:38AM 
“Eric Hanushek, an economist at Stanford, estimates that the students of a very bad teacher will learn, on average, half a year’s worth of material in one school year. The students in the class of a very good teacher will learn a year and a half’s worth of material. That difference amounts to a year’s worth of learning in a single year. Teacher effects dwarf school effects: your child is actually better off in a “bad” school with an excellent teacher than in an excellent school with a bad teacher. Teacher effects are also much stronger than class-size effects. You’d have to cut the average class almost in half to get the same boost that you’d get if you switched from an average teacher to a teacher in the eighty-fifth percentile. And remember that a good teacher costs as much as an average one, whereas halving class size would require that you build twice as many classrooms and hire twice as many teachers.” — Malcolm Gladwell, Annals of Education: Most Likely to Succeed (New Yorker)
There’s a lot here that I think is interesting in terms of homeschooling as well as general education.
One, the teacher is more important than the environment. Good education doesn’t require money and fancy accoutrements as much as it requires an adult who is good at helping children learn. There was a bit in the paper last week about how Detroit is asking parents to donate paper, pencils, soap, etc., to their schools — even though they receive $11,000 per student. Still, I hear people say that homeschooled children are being cheated if their families can’t provide them with all the “luxuries” available at public school.
Two, good teachers accelerate children’s learning as much as bad teachers bring it to a grinding halt. The majority of children in average schools probably have a mix of teachers from the wonderful to the mediocre to the bad (or, just as ineffective, the not-a-good-fit). So does the overall effect even out? A great teacher makes up for a bad teacher? But also vice-versa — whatever gains a great teacher is able to make can be erased the following year. I know dedicated teachers who are trying to teach a project-based curriculum but who feel frustrated beyond belief that the next year their students will plop right into a traditional classroom. Without multiage classes or looping, you can’t sustain the good effects. On the other hand, multiage classes and looping also sustain the effects of bad teaching.
(Looping is when one teacher teaches the same class for more than one year.)
There is an anti-homeschooling contingent that believes that parents cannot possibly be as good at teaching as certified teachers, even as evidence mounts to prove the contrary. If homeschooling parents are doing a good job, however, it stands to reason that their children are probably also learning a year and a half’s material in the time an average public school student learns a year’s worth. No wonder they have so much time for socializing and developing their interests.
Note in the last line of that quote up above: halving class sizes requires hiring twice as many teachers. If schools have so much trouble hiring great teachers in the first place (and evidently they do), how are they going to hire twice as many?
Having interviewed and hired teachers for several years, I can say that hiring an exceptional teacher is very, very difficult, even when you know exactly what you are looking for. Schools, after all, are restricted to choosing from what’s available. Can we make more great teachers and less bad ones? Can we allow that good homeschooling parents are better than a hit-or-miss series of public school teachers?
Reader Comments (40)
1. I don't believe we will EVER be able to make (or procure) more "great" teachers until we can pay them more. And then how do you test greatness? By testing the students? Ack. Such a difficult issue.
2. As a homeschooling parent, your last question taps into all my deepest insecurities . . . am I, in fact, a "good" teacher? I will admit that I do a lot of things well, and I give my children many advantages in learning that they might not have in the schools, but I also know my weaknesses all too well. I am often impatient and even downright grumpy sometimes. I wonder if I qualify as a "good" teacher, let alone a "great" one. Am I giving my kids the extra half-year or taking it away?
btw, here’s an interesting bit re: teacher salaries:
http://joannejacobs.com/2009/01/11/what-teachers-make-3/
how do you test for greatness? great question. definitely *not* by testing the students.
re: (2), sorry to tap into your deepest insecurities ;^) but i think this is something really worth pondering. maybe x many days a year we are that 85th percentile great teacher, and some days we are that 40th percentile bad teacher. but i think that by definition homeschooling parents are more invested in their children than the vast majority of teachers, are more willing to continue to strive for their children’s success even in the face of tough odds (many parents choose to homeschool their kids when the public school has failed them in some way), and as long as they continue to keep trying, they must be on a path toward bettering themselves as teachers.
taking already-great teachers out of the equation and comparing all homeschooling parents to good-to-poor public school teachers, which group is going to make more strides in improving the service they offer? i would argue there is almost zero incentive for an employed bad teacher to improve and possibly no way for them to improve. but a good (not even great) homeschooling parent starts out at square zero and keeps striving to improve, keeps trying new things, keeps exposing him- or herself to new methods and materials, keeps reassessing their success and failure .. i would say homeschooling parents probably judge themselves more for their children’s success or failure, whereas mediocre and bad teachers usually blame everyone else.
so, i would say .. even if some days you are the bad teacher (and we all are), as long as you care and keep working to improve your stats, you most definitely have the potential to be your child’s *great* teacher.
But as far as the teachers in public schools go, I've been saying this for years. Around here (and I'm sure it's the same most places) there is much talk about getting into a "good" school system, and a "good" school, and I say, You can be in the best school system in the world, but if you get a crappy teacher, it doesn't matter. Besides, now school systems are rated based on how they're doing on the No Child Left Behind scores, and that's not the main criteria in my book.
As far as trying to find good teachers, unions, unions, unions. Is it like that everywhere? The local elementary school doesn't even get to choose its own teachers. Think about that: They might have a vision for the school (although from what I've seen, I seriously doubt it), but THEY DON'T GET TO CHOOSE THEIR OWN TEACHERS. It's based on seniority within the district. So if four teachers put in for an open slot, say first grade at such-and-such a school, the one with the most seniority gets the slot. It doesn't matter if that particular teacher is not the best fit. That's the way it is in every single district, all 30-something of them in the smallest state in the country. Why yes, that's a problem too. Thirty-something different contracts. It's absurd. And it's really, really hard to get rid of a bad teacher.
I'd guess many potentially good teachers are completely turned off by this system. I know I was. When I went back to school for an English degree I considered adding in the classes for English education to get certification, but I didn't really want to teach in a public school. I figured the administrative stuff would drive me crazy. My adviser said it was a lot of extra classes for a fallback plan that I didn't even like that much.
And then I can't even count the number of my classmates in high school who decided to major in elementary education because "how hard could it be? I've already passed [first/second/etc] grade" and to get summers off. THESE ARE NOT THE PEOPLE I WANT TEACHING MY KIDS.
Sorry to yell. You hit a nerve. ;)
the school doesn’t even get to choose its own teachers? oh my. that’s a new one on me, and a new low.
re: what christina said .. does the good/bad teacher effect put pressure on a homeschooling parent? well .. i’m okay with that! i don’t think “as good as the public schools” is what we should be aspiring to. (i often get asked that — if i think what we are doing is equal to the public school.) we should be aspiring to our best, just as we aspire for our children to be their best.
and amy, as depressing as it may be, the majority of students majoring in education that i met and talked with fell into that group you describe — the group that thinks it would be great to have summers off or have the same schedule as their kids. and i’m with you — that doesn’t sound like a “great” teacher in the making.
And no, I'm not trying to do what the public schools do either. I get asked that question sometimes, or, more frequently, I see courses or field trips offered for homeschoolers that are the same ones offered to public school kids, and I think, well, if that's the sort of experience I wanted for my kids, I'd send them to school. I'm not trying to replicate school at home. (Although sometimes I wish I could send a kid to the principal's office, but that goes to my patience problem!)
any teacher (well, any person) who is reading this blog is obviously exceptional in every way! ;^)
re: comparing homeschooling to public school, i have two reactions to this. when non-hs’ing parents ask me about it, i usually think (and sometimes say) that being “as good as” public school is a pretty uninspiring goal to set. if i didn’t want something different, why would i go to all this trouble?
second, i often think that hs’ing families don’t take *near* enough advantage of their freedom and opportunity to customize their children’s education. many hs’ers *do* stick very close to a model of traditional schooling. why not take advantage of this freedom to really do something different? something more?
lol re: principal’s office .. in my school i *was* the principal, so my kids can’t escape that. ;^)
- First, I'm glad that Christina hit upon what I am sure most of the homeschoolers were sheepishly thinking, and thank-Lori, for putting away our fears of inadequacy quite nicely.
- I also live in a (large urban) district where schools cannot select their own teachers. My closest school is a magnet school for place based education and environmentalism. They have a definite manor in which they want to be teaching and they spend a lot of time learning outdoors. Whenever they have an opening they cannot select a teacher. They have to start from square one to teach that teacher about what they are doing and see over the year if the placement is a match. Luckily if the ideologies are not a fit usually the teacher asks for another placement, but sometimes it takes a few years.
- My husband is a high school teacher. I like to think he is one of the great ones. I certainly know he works hard and is well liked and remembered by many of his students ones, but he is a great teacher only to a small portion of the 130+ kids that sit in his classroom each day each trimester. His style isn't going to work at all for some of those kids and for the biggest chunk of them it is only fine for them.
- I do think teacher pay should be higher. I know my husband faced a lot of overt pressure from his parents to select a better paying career, and he also faced internal pressure, especially in those early years, seeing his college peer group do very well financially. How many more very bright college students would choose to go into teaching if the pay were at last close to comparable to what they could earn in other fields also looking for their talents.
- My husband's teacher education was a joke. It couldn't have been easier. Luckily, his program allowed for a lot of practical education in classrooms with mentor teachers. But his lecture and theoretical classes were useless.
- Testing has nothing to do with teacher skills. To start with bad teaching can be good drilling. Good test scores but a decreased love of learning. I also think everybody knows who the great teachers are and who the poor teachers are. Parents and kids talk and administrators should be observing. It isn;t objective but especially on either end of the spectrum, it is obvious.
what an interesting point that even a great teacher can’t perfectly meet the needs of every student — and you’re absolutely right — although that is obviously an impossible standard! :^)
public school teachers have the pressure of having to at least try to meet the needs of an enormous number of students who change each year. at least at home, even if we struggle, we can continue to apply ourselves to improving how we work with our children each year. (without their being replaced with new children with different challenges ;^) — at least we can make headway! public school teachers usually have to say goodbye to their students just as they finally get them figured out.)
re: teacher education, i hear this *all the time*. all. the. time. when is it going to change?
re: everyone knowing who the great and who the bad teachers are. so, so true. but — isn’t it extremely difficult to get rid of a “bad” teacher? someone who everyone knows is not good at teaching but who hasn’t done anything overtly wrong?
it was a kind of jumbly post with some half-formed thoughts — sorry for that! ;^) but hey, it’s a monday. and my brain was jumbly!
First, I can't agree more that it is 99% about which teacher your child has, rather than how good or bad the school's reputation is. I'm amazed at the laissez faire attitude so many parents have about who their child's teacher will be.
I have to disagree that salaries aren't an issue. The people you described pursuing an elementary ed degree because of the schedule would not be allowed into such programs if they were more competitive in the first place. Sadly, most people have the same attitude toward public-school teachers as reflected in the above comments, and in our present culture, respect for a profession and attracting the best and brightest are tied to salary.
I taught at the university level for 2 years, in a very poor elementary school for two years, and at a high school for six years. I did meet bad teachers that I was embarrassed by, and one whom I worked diligently to have removed from his position. But, honestly, they were the exception. We all had different styles, but I saw heroes every day, who weren't making 1/2 of what I say posted on that link (California salaries?), constantly changing, reinventing, re-evaluating themselves, their materials, their techniques. And giving so much more than 40 hours a week to their students. So I can't help but be irked whenever people talk about "summers off" etc.
All that said, I do believe a parent can be the best teacher of all for a child (my favorite parenting book is You Are Your Child's First Teacher). Sadly, there are as many if not more parents out there with poor parenting skills as there are bad teachers. Thankfully, most of those parents have no interest in homeschooling.
Lastly, whether it be a public-school teacher or a parent, if you are willing to really see a child, to listen to them and make space for who that child is in your plans and ideas, then I believe it doesn't matter if you have grumpy days or off-moments, you are already a great teacher.
when i said i didn’t think it was all about salary .. mm .. i have said this before, but what i think is most important is that most of the people being drawn to education are people who liked school .. therefore they are more invested in keeping the status quo. i think if we want different kinds of teachers it’s going to require a complete overhaul of the system. and different schools would attract a different sort of people who wanted to teach at those different schools .. an upward spiral, if you will.
re: “summers off”, i’m sorry if *i* irked you :^) but i have personally had acquaintances who told me that’s why they chose teaching *and* when i interviewed education students for jobs i always asked them why they were pursuing teaching as a career. the most common answers i got were for the hours/summers off (usually because they thought it would mesh well with mothering) and because their mother was a teacher. and these students were from an excellent state university with a theory-heavy reputation. sigh. (these same students, by and large, would tell me cheerfully that project-based learning would never work in real life. but that’s another story.)
i’m glad you’ve worked with so many excellent teachers; i certain know and have worked with many excellent teachers as well. but when i think about my life as a student, in a rural town in the midwest, it is hard for me to think of more than a couple great teachers i had over my entire student career.
you are so right that everyone, teacher or parent, is going to have grumpy day and off moments. one of the most common things people say to me about homeschooling is “i could *never* do that; being with my kids all day would drive me crazy!” i always think .. how strange .. i mean, you are already their parent .. that’s kind of a full-time job.
deirdre, thank you for your comment; i hope you didn’t think we were teacher bashing! i have way too many teacher friends to ever do that. but .. i do want to see improvements and changes to the education system in our country. so those good teachers can be supported to do what they need and want to do.
re: what Lori said about aspiring to be *better than*, not just "as good as" public schools . . . AMEN. There are so many reasons I decided to homeschool; it's always so hard to pinpoint one, or even several, but the overarching belief is that I can do it BETTER at home, in so many ways.
I agree that homeschoolers often don't take advantage of the freedom to customize education and make it *better* for, or more suited to, the individual child. I find myself falling into that trap all the time. We started homeschooling this year (my first child's kindergarten year) and I have often felt that I was at a disadvantage, not knowing what she *should* be doing as a kindergartener, what she *should* know, etc. In the last six or so months, I have adjusted my way of thinking and realized that it may be an advantage that I don't have any preconceived notions of what my kids *should* be doing. Instead, we do what they WANT to be doing, and in a way that works for them.
The link above only gives options for counties in CA. Obviously Utah's are pitifully different.
I forget sometimes that I didn't have the public school experience from the other side of the seat (most of my teachers were nuns and Jesuits). I probably would have a more visceral experience of the poor teachers out there. I have to add one last point though.
I think it is GREAT for homeschoolers to not attempt to recreate whatever schools are providing---there is so many better options! I can easily admit that. But I hope when thinking and talking about teachers, homeschoolers can also keep in mind that they aren't dealing with what teachers are either---a large number of children who don't have a basic sense of safety/security at home. As we work to provide more options for everyone, we have to keep in mind who is going to teach those who don't have an advocate.
Lori has written here before how it doesn't have to be one or the other---teachers don't have to be bad in order for homeschooling to be good.
whether at home or at school, we need to be setting our goals *high* and always thinking about how we can make things better .. a better fit, a better balance, a better attitude .. not to overwhelm ourselves but to put the focus where it belongs, on what matters.
i’m feeling bad that some of what i wrote today may be taken as teacher bashing and that is *not* what i intended. i would like to see more great teachers — and i would like to see more opportunities for teachers to become great — but there are plenty of great schools and teachers who are out there giving it their all every day, and we need to support them as a community.
re: customizing .. it seems like many homeschooling families think their choices are limited to a handful of common choices. they don’t realize (or maybe they realize too late?) that a fully self-designed model is possible. maybe it seems like too much work?
i think you are right, christina, that you are actually at an advantage to not be drilled in what kindergarten children *should* know/do/etc. so many times, that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, limiting what kids *can* do! what difference does it make, anyway? another place where homeschooling has schooling beat is that children don’t need to ascend through the grades in an orderly fashion .. they can simply work at their challenge level in each area every day .. no matter how that would be defined at school. and that is where kids should be.
you are so right -- and i think i’ve talked about this before on the blog -- that teachers and schools are burdened with an entirely different set of challenges than the average homeschool family.
actually, that’s one of the reasons i wonder why more homeschooling families don’t take more advantage of that fact .. they *don’t* labor under the same heavy burdens, so .. ?
even a *great* school is operating with a completely different set of requirements than a family.
ah, sorry about the link .. i didn’t even try it, i just misunderstood and thought you could look up any area. my bad.
“As we work to provide more options for everyone, we have to keep in mind who is going to teach those who don't have an advocate.” deirdre, you are absolutely right. whether your children are in public school, private school, charter school, or homeschool, our society has to care about public education because that’s what educates the bulk of our society.
I had many good teachers at school, far too many bad teachers (whose impact was felt far beyond their particular subject) but I have been unable to think of any "great" teachers - in school.
My one experience with a great teacher was as an adult, returning to music lessons. My music teacher inspired me to strive for more, to have confidence and self-belief, and to broaden my knowledge, which increased my love of music. I owe her a lot.
This is the kind of teaching environment I would like to provide for my children, so they can achieve their full potential. From your blog, I am learning that I will need to keep striving for this goal - as they change and develop, so I must change and develop with them.
I taught high school in a Title 1 (read poor) school for 5 years in Cali. I did work with a lot of really great teachers who were trying really hard to change the way things were done... and most of them were those ones you talked about that became teachers because they loved school... luckly they were able to see that changes were needed even though they loved it! I was that teacher who hated school as a kid and was hoping to make it better for even just a handful of kids. We were up against not only flaws in the system but also those kids who were much more worried about getting beat up or were their next meal was coming from or that parent who is in jail. Challenges that make it so difficult, if not impossible, to focus on what someone is telling you is important to know!
I was lucky to teach Health, Child Devleopment and Marriage and Family. Topics that hit home with these students.
My teacher certification program was a joke also. I did not go on to get my masters (as many teachers do by adding just a few more classes) because I was ashamed and felt as if I was just paying for my degree.
What was said about hs kids and freedom... I love that right now. I looked up the standards for Primary (we are in Canada right now - all the same issues by the way) and was distressed at what they wanted these 5-year-olds to do... after a few months I had had enough and certainly don't plan on holding her to those standards at home.
Thanks for this great discussion. I guess I added a little more than I thought. Hot topic!!
I have learned that she and I are NOT on opposite sides of the spectrum. We both deeply want to inspire independent, creative existence. We believe in it for ourselves and for "our students"...whomever they are.
But the take home message from this post is not lost on me - the gift of time to explore a thing deeply, to work at one's own pace, and the inherent incentive of loving my child and desiring his happiness drive me to persevere in my lifestyle.
I didn't read this in any way as a bash on teachers. Seems to me this is ultimately about personal responsibility - as a parent or a teacher, and being willing to rise to the occasion when action needs to be taken. I empathize with the position of the good teacher that has a style that doesn't resonate with an able student. That kind of frustration requires tremendous resiliency. I know :) - I am the "teacher" at work - I am the training supervisor for all of our technical staff. Sometimes the best thing I can do is find the right mentor for the person - it CERTAINLY is not always me...
As a matter of fact, my mind is racing so fast that I can't put together a decent comment, so I'll just say thanks for sharing your thoughts!